obama has -- president obama has always been a very pragmatic leader, very pragmatic when it comes to debating, and very pragmatic when it comes to his campaign. he used this opportunity to open it up so he can actually at the end of the day sway the independent voter but by going out of the gate -- going after his base immediately, that doesn't help him to move the needle for the independent voters he needs. >> bill, lath night mr. romney described the dodd frank reform law as the biggest kiss to new york banks i have ever seen. you have worked with some of those banks. so was it? or is that the biggest lie mr. romney told last night? >> as george kos stanza says, it's not a lie if you believe it. it's one of the most cynical comments we heard last night because i don't think i have ever heard mitt romney actually defend regulation. he actually said i'm going to scrap dodd/frank and put in place new regulations, presumably tougher regulations. if this is a kiss, he wants tougher regulations. let's stipulate for a moment that most of wall street is already in mitt romney's pocket, alr